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Starmade | Armor values wrongly applied to missile damage
Closed, RejectedPublic

Description

Basically, armor % affects the TOTALITY of missile damage, not just the damage required to destroy the armor block.

So for example, say 100k missile damage gets applied to an armor block with 50% armor. Normally, the damage applied to the armor block would only be 50k and then the damage carried over to the next block would be 100k minus whatever the damage it took to destroy the armor block. HOWEVER, currently the damage that carries over is 50k minus the damage required to kill the armor block, because the armor was applied to the totality of the damage. What this does is that it SEVERELY reduces the damage of missiles against armored targets, to the extent that they become practically useless, especially with multiple layers of armor since the damage reduction becomes exponential.

To test:

  1. Make a missile system
  2. Fire at a block of armor (flat surface to make the calculations easier)
  3. Notice how the amount of blocks destroyed doesn't at all match up the missile's damage.

It's pretty easy to see that something is wrong. I have a ship that uses missiles as a main weapon; it shreds armor and shield HP but does barely anything against structure HP (even with shields and armor hp at 0%). HOWEVER, if the target has no armor then the structure HP will take the normal amount of damage.

Details

Task Type
Bug
Testing Results
Affected Gamemode(s)
Single and Multi
Reproducible
uncertain
Category
Engine
Hardware/Software/System
OS-Specific
No
Hardware-Specific
No
Video Card Vendor
uncertain
Serverconfig (server.cfg)
<replace this line with the file content>
Clientconfig (settings.cfg)
<replace this line with the file content>

Event Timeline

Keptick updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 14 2015, 11:55 PM
Keptick edited Serverconfig (server.cfg). (Show Details)
Keptick edited Clientconfig (settings.cfg). (Show Details)
Keptick added a subscriber: Keptick.
Keptick created this task.
Restricted Application added a project: Issue Navigation. · View Herald TranscriptNov 14 2015, 11:55 PM
Keptick updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 14 2015, 11:57 PM
Keptick set Task Type to Bug.
Keptick set Category to none/unspecified.
Keptick set Affected Gamemode(s) to none/unspecified.
Keptick set Reproducible to uncertain.
Keptick set OS-Specific to No.
Keptick set Hardware-Specific to No.
Keptick set Video Card Vendor to uncertain.

Herm... idk why it edited all the parameters, I just edited the text to make it clearer...

In T854#31271, @Keptick wrote:

Herm... idk why it edited all the parameters, I just edited the text to make it clearer...

on creation everything has a default value, if you edit it. You'll "confirm" these default parameters.

lancake claimed this task.Nov 28 2015, 2:58 PM

-Validated-

I checked it back in those dev builds and it appeared to work fine but not sure now.

lancake shifted this object from the S1 Public space to the S3 Starmade space.Nov 28 2015, 2:59 PM
lancake changed the visibility from "Custom Policy" to "Public (No Login Required)".
lancake changed the edit policy from "Task Author" to "Starmade (Project)".
lancake changed Category from none/unspecified to Engine.
lancake changed Affected Gamemode(s) from none/unspecified to Single and Multi.
lancake triaged this task as High priority.
Restricted Application added a subscriber: AndyP. · View Herald TranscriptNov 28 2015, 2:59 PM

I always thought this was a Nerf to missiles VS Armour? I remember I had an old-turret style Artillery-Dreadnought volleying loads of missiles at max range and it would devastate a target that was hit, even though the missiles were mostly Ion effect.
Missiles only got even more ludicrous when the damage was doubled per block in an array. A mere 1000 Missile-beam-EXP used to absolutely crater a target back in the day I believe

I was reffered to this task after mentioning issues with pulses on chat. I can confirm that in the latest build this issue also occurs with damage pulse and warheads which would suggest that the issue is with the explosion system itself rather than something specific to missiles.

-Feedback-

I can't confirm, seems to work like it should.

the block armor HP damage absorption applies once, for the starting hit.
the block armor itself properly deducts from the remaining damage.

I tested this out with 2 custom blocks, 100 HP and 50% armor so effectively 200 EHP and another block with 100 HP

My missile did 3000 damage.
On a flat surface against the armored blocks (and without block armor HP enabled) I destroyed 1390 EHP.
On a flat surface against the unarmored blocks, I destroyed 1385 EHP.

There's no difference between them.

Now to make sure I replaced the target block of the unarmored ones with an armored block, hitting this should according to you cut my damage in half, I did destroy the same amount of EHP though.

To clarify, shooting a flat surface means you'll lose about 55% of your missile damage to open space, so make sure to compare your results with unarmored blocks of the same setup (also same block HP).
Another thing is that 50% block armor doesn't mean your whole damage is nerfed by 50%, it enhances the block EHP, not nerfs your damage.

So for example, say 100k missile damage gets applied to an armor block with 50% armor. Normally, the damage applied to the armor block would only be 50k and then the damage carried over to the next block would be 100k minus whatever the damage it took to destroy the armor block.

That 100K missile should deal around 50K (most likely less) damage on flat surface. Damage carried over to the next block would be 50K - block HP/(1- block armor)

This comment was removed by lancake.
lancake closed this task as Rejected.Jan 28 2016, 5:53 PM

-Rejected-

Works as intended, armor HP is supposed to enhance your armor against missiles, the bigger the missile, the more it is enhanced. It can reach huge numbers but that's what it's important to kill armor HP first, after that you'll shred through any block fast no matter what type of armor the target is using.

Restricted Application edited projects, added Starmade; removed Issue Navigation. · View Herald TranscriptJan 28 2016, 5:53 PM
Restricted Application removed a subscriber: AndyP. · View Herald Transcript
In T854#41133, @lancake wrote:

-Rejected-
Works as intended, armor HP is supposed to enhance your armor against missiles, the bigger the missile, the more it is enhanced. It can reach huge numbers but that's what it's important to kill armor HP first, after that you'll shred through any block fast no matter what type of armor the target is using.

Yea, I figured that was the thing I didn't account for. How exactly DOES the armor HP mechanic work? (I mean the ship-wide hp, not per block).

AndyP moved this task from Unclassed to Archived on the Starmade board.Mar 2 2016, 12:19 AM
Restricted Application added a project: Engine. · View Herald TranscriptMar 10 2017, 6:22 PM